Legendary Beatles superstar John Lennon once said; “Music reflects the state that the society is in. It doesn’t suggest the state. The poets and musicians and artists are of the age–not only do they lead the age on, but they also reflect that age. Like, The Beatles. We came out of Liverpool and we reflected our background and we reflected our thoughts in what we sang, and that’s all people are doing.”
In a recent interview, Orthodox Jewish rapper Nissim Black says his new music video and single “Mothaland Bounce” expresses a generational cultural desire of unity from seemingly opposite Ideologies.This isn’t just a perspective, it’s actually his life: Nissim is an African American convert from Seattle, and a Breslover Chassid deeply immersed in the teachings of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov. “There is Truth, the truth of the Truth and there is Peace,” Rabbi Nachman once famously said. “The Truth is ‘the boy stole an apple’, the truth of the Truth is ‘the boy was hungry’ and Peace is ‘nobody stole anything, now, give the boy an apple!”
As a creative artist, Nissim sees the world through the lenses of being both Jewish and Black. With the recent upswing of violent anti-Semitic incidents in areas where Orthodox Jewish and black non-Jewish communities overlap, Black sees his latest single as a healing tool of unification for both cultures. A runaway hit, the music video for “Mothaland Bounce” amassed over 1 million views in a week, making it one of the most impactful videos Nissim Black has ever released.
In this exclusive interview, Nissim talks about unification of different cultures, his mainstream record deal, and tackles the age old question: Is it possible as an African American Jew in the Orthodox world to be both pro-Black and pro-Jewish?
“Torah Judaism has allowed me to expand my mind in ways, I never knew was possible. When I see the Hebrew Israelites I see brothers trying to figure out their path to G’d in the same way I did,” says Nissim Black.[Edited for length and clarity.]
Mordechai: Well, the big thing is everyone just saw this new song that just came out called “Motherland Bounce,” and it’s there, it’s all over the Internet, everyone’s talking about it. And I think the question everyone wants to know it’s like seems like such a transition from the music that we’ve been used to you coming out with. I mean, just so many hits, y’know. And they’ve just all been very in a different musical vein. How do we understand this direction and what was the thought process behind it?
Nissim: I mean I guess I would start from the writing process. The writing process was “Okay this song, definitely this beat, is knockin, and I need to be able to give over something that’s going to culturally reflect, like, this sample.” And I feel like it was a time for me while I was sort of feeling, like, I wanted to make a statement. Of just one of those records, and when I heard it, I was like “I have to make a statement on this.” And I feel like for me being both African American and Jewish right there’s always this question that’s in the air, like, “Is he still black?” or “How Jewish is he?” from both sides. So these type of questions come up so I just wanted to…I sort of wanted to make a statement that was saying that not only am I Jewish, not only am I black, but I’m very proud of it.
M: It’s amazing it’s, like, I think we’re actually in Black History Month right now, and you know African-Americans have had such a legacy of music and artistic creation in America. And now you have a mainstream record deal, and so the idea is to say, like, the same Black coming into the hip-hop world with this this new sound, this new idea, this new like thought process: How does this fit into the legacy of black music as a whole?
N: That’s a very good question. I think that, y’ know, just part of me being who I am as an individual, being for what I stand for—which is not only my faith, not only G’d—but being proud of who I am as a person, it’s definitely is reflected in the music. It’s reflected in the actions that I make, the things that I do, how involved I get in both the Jewish community and the African-American community, those type of things. It’s just all sort of reflected in the music. So I sort of say, like, when I when I walk into the booth, I feel like I take a bunch of people in there with me, y’know what I mean? And that’s just sort of the way I look at my responsibility. I sort of feel like, to some degree, I’ve been given the task to embody what it means to be able to create new and fresh music that’s going to create different types of conversations—even for the African-American community.
M: And it’s interesting timing, because Kanye West just came out with an album and it was kind of a more spiritual, G’d-focused spiritual transformation album, and he went number one in the country. And I just read an article about Master P and his son, and they want to talk about G’d, and it seems like hip-hop is kinda going in this direction that, like, you’ve been in from the beginning, which is talking about Hashem, talking about life. And in your self-transformation as a person, I think, y’know, it’s interesting. How do you see yourself collaborating with other artists that have similar messages to you that are in the mainstream music space?
N: There’s a major need to be able to connect with like-minded people. Because generally most religions, they find a common area where they agree, right? But I think that it’s one of those things now, where it’s sort of like the war against G’d is so great, who’s got time to be talking about the small details of this and that? And I’m very excited to see that there are people who’ve decided to, y’know, sort of take a stand and be like “I’m gonna talk about G’d in my music, and and try to do it in a way where it’s universally accepted by everybody.”
M: When you look at the history of Black music in America, it started off talking about G’d right?
N: Right
M: It started off talking about journeys, and acts of courage,and being a hero and whatnot. And I would say, with your music in this new direction, you’re gonna be performing in front of a lot of African Americans. You’re going to be on the radio stations—I think you know your video’s on BET, y’know? And so like, as an African American Jew, I think that the mainstream world hasn’t ever really seen an African American Jew, and you’re kinda like the first introduction to that world, so what’s the message and what can we learn from that?
N: I think it’s an important thing for people to understand that we exist. Especially in America. Most of the Jews in America are Ashkenazi, so you would see and you’d be like “Oh, well Jews are white. This is the color of Judaism.” It’s not the color of Judaism. You come to Israel, you have so many different shades and colors, and so many different cultures, so many different, y’know? And guess what, I can still go into that synagogue, in that synagogue, and we’re gonna all pray the same prayers essentially. I’m sure you can identify—coming from where we came from, and growing up the way that we grew up—we didn’t think outside of that box so much. And I think it’s important for us, because I feel like a lot of us end up so institutionalized in our minds, of thinking that “This is what a black person does. This is what a white person does,” and the truth is, it’s like, once you’ve seen other people of color be successful and go outside of what you thought was normal already—once there’s already an Oprah, once there’s already a Jay-Z, once there’s already—y’know? Now you can’t tell me that I can’t succeed. Now that I see that it’s already been done, you’re not gonna sell me that I can’t do it, y’know what I mean? And I’d like to think that I can also be one to put my foot forward and say that, y’know, “You can’t say that it can’t be done. Look where he came from.” The you that you want to be is not always going to be in your space, in the area that you know. It may be somewhere all the way over there, and you have to go and find it.
M: Now, you’re saying something really powerful. Like, in hip-hop specifically there’s been a lot of, like, you have Kendrick Lamar. He talks about feeling connected to Judaism. And, like, even Hebrew Israelites, they talk about that. Kodak Black, was very vocal about it, y’know? Like, the Hebrew Israelites haven’t seen people like you or myself, and sometimes, it could be a thing where people could take that we’re not proud of our African-American culture, and our rich history. I look at it like, there’s a bunch of us hearing “Israel,” and for me that’s, like, an extension of black culture.
N: Yeah, absolutely.
M: Like, there were African-Americans who were Christian and changed their denomination, or African Americans who were Muslim and got very involved in Islam, and it’s like, there’s African-Americans who became Jewish, too. What can the music that you’re coming out with say to people who have these misconceptions about you as a person, or us in general?
N: Y’know, I went to go speak with rabbis in Jerusalem, very big rabbis that I felt that I was close enough to, to be able to ask about what direction they’re going musically. And it was very much so unanimously that “You can do things and go places that other people can’t go and come out unscathed.” And I’m very much so encouraged to “go into you.” When I look at these different movements, the Hebrew Israelites, what I see? I see brothers trying to find their way just like we found our way. I feel like we’ve joined the Jewish faith and we don’t believe in proselytizing, because we don’t believe you need to be Jewish to have a place in heaven. So we don’t have that pressure of trying to go and get other people because we feel like they’re wrong or we’re right or whatever. When you see things like this happening, different movements coming up, whether it’s from the Hebrew Israelites, #blacklivesmatters, or all these different groups who say it’s time to start talking about this consciousness of who we are as a people—we could be all on different spectrums, but see that’s G’d trying to bring an idea into the world. And whatever is trying to come down—this person may see it this way, that person may see it that way, this person may see it another way—but we’re all trying to get to a common place of understanding. And that message may come down, and maybe not be clear, but we’re all trying to get there. There’s certain things that we have to sort of grab and grapple and figure out what it is, what that message is right now. I’m excited to explore and do different things with the music that sort of reflects this consciousness coming into the world.
M: About the deal that you signed, what were some of the things that made you hesitate going into it, and what were some of the things that you were looking forward to going with a mainstream company?
N: I think one of the biggest things is, y’know, the last maybe seven years I’d just been in a box. Very much so to a large degree cut off from society. Obviously, not because anybody made me, but I’ve been so wrapped up in growing spiritually, y’know? Moving to Israel was a big move for me and my family, and I sort of felt like anything that was outside of that was going to damage my whole entire situation and what I got going right now. And so I was very hesitant, and I remember actually going to talk to my rabbi, Rabbi Shalom Arush, and had it not been for him giving me the strength and the confidence, saying “Not only you’re gonna go out there, but it’s not gonna affect you, and this is very much so what you know G’d wants you to do and you’ve been created for such a time as this.” You know what I mean? And it sort of gave me the encouragement and the strength to get past those fears.
Watch more of this interview at: https://youtu.be/DwjQBN4FxM8